Ep 111: How AI is (and Will Be) Used in Healthcare
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Connect with Harvey Castro: LinkedIn Profile
In today’s episode host Jordan Wilson and guest Dr. Harvey Castro delved into the exciting world of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in healthcare. The conversation shed light on the potential of AI to transform the medical sector, improve patient care, and address industry challenges. As a business owner or decision maker, understanding these advancements can help you stay ahead in the evolving healthcare landscape. Let’s explore some key insights from the episode and explore the possibilities AI offers to your organization.
AI as a game-changer in healthcare technology:
The discussion highlighted the influential role of AI in healthcare technology. Industry leaders like Epic have been at the forefront, providing cutting-edge solutions for decades. However, the possibility of tech giants like OpenAI or Google acquiring healthcare companies could reshape the future of healthcare, leveraging AI advancements and expertise.
Multimodality technology and its impact:
The podcast emphasized the power of multimodality technology, such as smartphones and smart glasses, in revolutionizing healthcare. These devices have the potential to enhance patient care, allow medical professionals to access vast amounts of information instantly, and even provide virtual assistance during consultations.
AI’s role in medical research and drug discovery:
AI’s transformative impact goes beyond patient care. It has played a vital role in medical research, enabling the discovery of new drugs, proteins, and potentially facilitating early disease detection. The host and guest highlighted the positive momentum surrounding AI’s adoption in the medical field, creating opportunities for breakthroughs in deep learning and machine learning.
The potential of AI-powered robots in healthcare:
The conversation touched upon the innovative idea of AI-driven robots in healthcare. The integration of AI language models like Chat GPT into robot eyes could create nurse assistants capable of reading and providing vital information like hemoglobin levels, blood pressure, and heart rate. These robots could also assist in the virtual summarization of medical records and display relevant images.
Ethical considerations and concerns:
While AI in healthcare holds immense promise, ethical considerations must be at the forefront. Patient privacy and security are paramount, necessitating compliance with regulations like HIPAA. The responsible use of AI lays the foundation for secure data handling and ensures that patients are fully consulted with healthcare professionals for accurate diagnoses and treatments.
AI’s influence in healthcare is rapidly expanding, with the potential to reshape patient care, research, and overall industry dynamics. The “Everyday AI” podcast provided valuable insights into the current and future use of AI in healthcare. As a business owner or decision maker, staying informed about AI advancements in healthcare will empower you to make informed choices and identify opportunities to integrate AI solutions into your organization.
Topics Covered in This Episode
1. Overview of AI in Healthcare
2. AI in Healthcare Applications
3. Integration of AI in Electronic Medical Records (EMR)
4. Future Directions of AI in Healthcare
5. AI’s Impact on Healthcare Perspectives
6. Challenges and Concerns in AI-Enabled Healthcare
Jordan Wilson [00:00:16]:
What will the future of healthcare look like with AI? You know, we’ve talked about it once or twice on the show before, but I think our guest today is going to be shedding some light and giving us insights on not just how AI has been used in the medical field and in healthcare, but also how it will be used. So whether you’re in the health field or not, I think today’s episode is a must listen, a must watch if you’re joining us live. So thank you if you are joining us live. My name is Jordan Wilson and I’m the host. This is everyday AI. This is a Daily Livestream podcast and free daily newsletter helping everyday people keep up with what’s going on in the world of AI. Because there’s so much. So this isn’t just the news.
Jordan Wilson [00:01:03]:
This isn’t just a conversation. It’s what we can take away from it. It’s how we can leverage it and how we can grow our companies and grow our careers. Does that sound good? I literally can’t wait to bring on our guest. But before I do, we’re going to go over the AI. News. And if you’re joining us live, let me know. What is your one biggest question on AI and healthcare? Get your biggest question in now.
Daily AI news
Jordan Wilson [00:01:28]:
I want to make sure to see what your questions are because we’re going to get to them. But first, we’ve got to talk about Meta. Let’s go over the AI. News. Meta just landed a hard punch in the AI battle with their announcements at Metaconnect 23. So the Meta platforms has released new AI products, including a chat bot and smart glasses. Also, Meta has their new with the smart glasses, they’ll be able to identify places and objects as well as perform language translation. Very cool.
Jordan Wilson [00:02:01]:
That’s not all. There’s so much more Meta news. So they’re also launching their AI driven persona chatbots across Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp. We’ve talked about those probably a dozen times on the show and in the newsletter before. And developers will also be able to build their own AIS inside to use on Meta’s messaging platforms. That’s not even all. They also released their mixed reality Quest three headset which will have some AI applications for $500. So not even crazy when you think.
Jordan Wilson [00:02:32]:
I think Apple’s is 3000 or 3500. All right, some more AI news that’s not Meta. Adobe launches their new Photoshop online, so it is including some popular AI features from its Firefly AI platform like Generative Fill. It seems like they’re trying to with the online offering, try to compete a little bit with Canva, except not on price. There is no free version. There is no premium version. Adobe Photoshop. Even with this new online AI powered version, they’re launching, it is still a paid product.
Jordan Wilson [00:03:05]:
Last but not least, OpenAI makes a little bit of news, bringing back Browse with Bing. So we’ve talked about it here on the show before. They had a mode inside Chat GBT before for plus users. So you got to pay the $20 a month. Again, pay the $20 a month. I’m not working for OpenAI to say it, just do it. But they had to take the Browse with Bing feature away because previously it was kind of accessing websites that were behind a paywall. Not good.
Jordan Wilson [00:03:34]:
Tons of lawsuits. But Browse with Bing is back. And here’s my hot take. Do not use it. Do not use it. It is, in my opinion, it is a marketing angle. It is not very useful at all. Use an internet-connected plugin instead.
About Dr. Harvey and healthcare involvement
Jordan Wilson [00:03:51]:
Don’t get me started on that. I’ll accidentally be here for 3 hours and then our guests won’t be able to come on. So, speaking of that, I’m excited for this one. This one has been a while in the making and actually our first guest, our first repeat guest. So please help me in welcoming to the show again, Dr. Harvey Castro. He is the author of multiple books on AI in healthcare, a physician, entrepreneur, all around AI enthusiast, dr. Harvey Castro.
Jordan Wilson [00:04:19]:
Thank you for joining the show. Wait, I think we have a little technical issue.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:04:29]:
I got it. No, I got it, buddy. Sorry. I just want to say thank you, everybody. It’s awesome to be back. I love this show. I love everything that you’re doing. So let’s do it.
Jordan Wilson [00:04:39]:
And Harvey brings the party because whenever he’s on the show, people come, they want to watch, they want to listen. So, welcome if you’re in Harvey’s network, thank you for joining us. And as a reminder, if you’re listening on the podcast later, always check the show notes and check the show notes in the comments today. A lot of other resources, but you can also come in and join the conversation. If you’re listening on Spotify apple, come ask Dr. Harvey a question. So let’s start at the top. One thing that I want to know, Harvey, just for everyone who’s unaware, what are you doing in the healthcare space? Because I feel everywhere I go, everywhere I turn, even a Fox News article this morning talking about some new AI advancements for paralyzed patients.
Jordan Wilson [00:05:25]:
You’re everywhere on the scene when it comes to AI and healthcare. So give everyone a little bit of background on who you are and how you just became this voice of kind of an AI leader in the health space.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:05:37]:
I appreciate it, honestly. It starts with this thing called the iPhone. And sorry, I got actually COVID, but I’m not contagious now, so I’m good now. So no one will get it over the air from this air right here. Rather. Anyway, it starts with the iPhone. Basically, I was coding a patient and was iPhone one. And at the time the nurse got this big textbook.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:06:01]:
I said, hey, we need to start this epidrip. We need to do this other drip. And she’s like, let me verify these doses. And literally she got a textbook, started thumbing through it, and then got the medicine. And I thought back then I was like, gosh, there’s got to be a better way. So I taught myself how to program. I created the first IV meds app. It went viral, and as a result, I was able to grow a company into 30 different apps.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:06:22]:
And fast forward this thing called Chat GPT comes out and I’m playing with it. And I had this AHA moment that I did with the iPhone and I thought, oh my God, this is going to change healthcare. This is going to help doctors, patients. And my brain just exploded. And I just started writing a book on it. And I’ll never forget it was December 2022. My wife comes into the office and says like, what are you doing all day? You’re like, obsessed. And what is this chat GPT thing? And I was like, oh, honey, this is going to change the world.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:06:50]:
She’s like, no one’s going to read your book. No one knows what Chat GPT is. Doctors are going to laugh. Don’t waste your time. And I’m like, no, even if I sell this book and it’s one person, I don’t care. At least get the word out. Well, fast forward all these people have been calling me to do world stage keynote speeches around the world. Just different opportunities to just help people.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:07:13]:
And honestly, it all started in a good place. It just started not as a business, didn’t start as anything else other than a public service announcement. And since then, I’ve been getting calls from Fox News, different news media around the world asking me to do quotes for different articles. But my mission hasn’t changed. I just want to help doctors and patients. I haven’t officially created a company in the sense that I’m like, this is my company. No, it’s more like, let me help out. And from it, other opportunities have arise that I’m actually being able to consult and do other things.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:07:41]:
But overall, it’s just been just such a fun ride.
How AI is being used now in healthcare
Jordan Wilson [00:07:45]:
Yeah, it’s been great. And I’m even learning so much new information about AI in the health field. Dr. Castro always keeps me up to know if there’s new studies or anything. So if you’ve heard anything on the everyday AI show before, there’s a good chance that Dr. Castro sent it to yeah, even I mentioned this. We’ll shoot this out in the newsletter, don’t worry. But Dr.Castro was interviewed for a pretty great breakthrough that was just reported on this morning. But I want to talk about this because we can go read that in the newsletter, right? But I want to take advantage of every minute we have you on the show here, Dr. Castro, because one thing I want to know is in general well, actually, let’s even start it further back. Let’s hit rewind. Where are we at right now in the medical community with AI? Bring us up to speed because I know there’s a lot I know AI has been used in healthcare settings for decades, but give us, especially with generative AI, give us the 62nd. Here’s where we are right now.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:08:53]:
Yeah, so the biggest news was early in the year, microsoft, OpenAI and Epic, so let’s call it a trifecta got together and Epic is an electronic medical records that a lot of hospitals around the world use. And they basically said, we’re going to use the summaries of OpenAI and plug it into the EMR. And big picture, what I’ve heard is that they’re supposed to roll that out this year. I’ve seen some minor updates that they’re working on the summary part of it, that they’re working on other features. I personally haven’t seen it because I’m not working at an Epic place. But I know this article right here will show it from April. But then there was, I think, an update in August, which will be good. But big picture, my point is this is a huge milestone for us as a society.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:09:41]:
I think once this comes out, epic is going to kind of pave the way of how this was used around the FDA, what parts they did. And I think what’s literally an API or this way of connecting with OpenAI and other companies, it’s going to help startups create other products in healthcare. And I’m really stoked because once that comes out, I really think the leader is going to be literally leading how others are going to be able to do this.
Future of AI in healthcare
Jordan Wilson [00:10:05]:
Yeah, that’s so important. One thing as well that I wanted to ask you about, Dr. Castro, is it seems like, and I’ve said this on the show before, I think that the medical field in general has actually been ahead of the curve and they have for a long time when it comes to advancements in AI. So using deep learning, machine learning to discover new drugs, new proteins, right, new potentially early detection for diseases. So that piece is not new in the medical space. But where do you see kind of when we see those positive developments over the last couple of years, where do you see it going from here? It seems like in the medical field, there is a lot of positive momentum around the use of AI. But where do you see it going in the next couple of years?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:11:00]:
That’s a good one. And I pause and think because healthcare in general is very traditional. People don’t want to like they don’t like change. Especially, I’m going to call out older doctors like myself, tend to be set in their ways. And so now you have the new kid on the block and it’s AI. And there’s some turf wars in the sense that some doctors are like, no, I’m not going to let this replace me, or no, this is not smarter than me. I’ve been doing this for 30 years and no. And so there is like this paradigm shift.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:11:29]:
And I think I’ll bring in my first prop based on your news from Meta. These are my ray bands and you got them. Let’s go. These are the ones from the last generation. So I haven’t got the next generation, but they look exactly like it. So the reason I’m wearing them is it looks exactly like the next one, and I am going to order in the next ones, but it has a little button here I can videotape, the future will have augmented reality. And so I know I look silly wearing them in the doctor’s office, but if I was your doctor and wearing them and I explain now I could possibly see in front of me your medical record. I could look at your X rays where the future is and where I’m wearing these is to explain.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:12:07]:
Imagine I’m discharging you. Imagine you have some disease that you’ve never heard of and I’m going over it. How cool would it be if I gave you a pair of glasses, obviously sanitized and all that. I put them on you. And then together we’re seeing the same thing. We’re walking through your disease process. I’m pausing, I’m turning it, I’m explaining it to you. And it’s almost like this video where you’re like, oh, now I see why I need to take my medicines for my heart med.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:12:31]:
Now I see why my diabetes is this way. Oh my gosh. Now I realize why he gets upset when my sugar is so high. And so I think this is going to be the feature. Now the other prop, and I’m joking here, it’s going to be the iPhone. Not just the iPhone, just the mobile device. I have it set up where I have OpenAI in the background already listening to our conversation. So these are the kind of things, if we had a question, I could ask Chat GPT, and I won’t do it on Live, but I was going to, but my point is, these kind of tools, it’s going to augment me.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:13:08]:
It’s going to augment you. Imagine in the world you’re my patient in the future, imagine we’re two different languages or cultures. Imagine I grew up in New York and the East Coast. And I may use an East Coast example. You may have grown in different part of the states or another part of the world. How cool. If I could speak an example, it could convert it and use AI and put it into your language, your culture even. It may not be the same example, but it parallels the example to your culture.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:13:35]:
And now I’m really communicating. Now I’m giving you better health care. So the future, I think is going to be using AI. The other cool example that I talk about in the future is going to be it’s my favorite case in England. This hospital has discharge instructions, and imagine talking to a five year old and how much time you get with a five year old. It’s hard to get across them. Imagine if they had a disease and you had to explain the disease. I won’t go into the details, but basically they took the discharge instructions, fed it into Chat GPT, and to talk to me as if you were a five year old.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:14:06]:
But then they used Mid Journey to create a coloring book for all the big concepts and put it together and said, here you go, child. And now the doctor, the parents can sit with the child. And so I thought this was just an amazing way. So I think the future will be multimodality things like our phone, our glasses, and I think that’s going to change healthcare. And it blows my mind of all the possibilities. And then I was watching the keynote speech yesterday for Meta, and all I could think of is all these different medical applications. Just using these. As an aside, next month I’m going to be with a company that works with NASA, and they’ve asked me to see if I can help just give some suggestions on the Mars mission and how we can use AI in Mars.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:14:50]:
And so I’m just honored to be able to be able to just contribute to such a big mission. This is just kind of cool for.
Hot take on how AI can be used in healthcare
Jordan Wilson [00:14:56]:
Oh, wow, that’s amazing. Hey, if you’re joining us live, let me just recap everything that’s going on. Right? So Dr. Harvey Castro is joining us. Wrote the book on chat, GPT and healthcare. And not only that, now he’s going to be consulting on how we can use AI to get to right. Amazing, right? So we have a lot of great questions. But I want to first, because Dr.Castro, he’s not new to this show. He’s always contributing in the comments, connecting with people, putting out great information. But I’m going to kind of put you on the hot seat here because I know you have hot takes. But I want to ask so this kind of popped in my head after you were given the story of writing your book on Chat GPT, and your wife is like, will anyone read it? And people are obviously reading it now. So what is maybe one other thing that specifically in the AI space that right now that you’re seeing that you’re saying, hey, I have an extensive background here in AI and healthcare. I see this happening. And maybe some of your colleagues are like, I don’t know about that, Dr. Castro.
Jordan Wilson [00:16:03]:
That doesn’t seem like it’s something that’s going to happen. Maybe what is that one thing that you’re really advocating or maybe not even advocating for, but you’re seeing this happen that everyone else in the medical community that is maybe not as in touch with AI is like, are you sure about this?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:16:19]:
I got it for you. This is, again, imagination, but I really think this is going to happen. So let me give a little backstory. So literally, PPP here, I’m going to do it. But in medicine and talking to you. So imagine a world where the average nurse, and this is true, the average age is 54. So if your average age of your nurse is 54 and 20% of those nurses in the United States are 65 and up, then imagine if we kept that rate the same, then in ten years, the average nurse would be 64, with 20% of that being 74. And so we have a huge problem.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:16:53]:
And imagine more and more patients like COVID and other things where it’s putting a stress on our system to the point where we’re going to have to either lower our standard and accept more people into nursing or nurses are so burnt out that it’s going to make the problem worse because they’re like, this is too much work. I’m out. And now we’re really hurting as a nation for healthcare. My idea that I don’t think has caught on that people are like, that’s not going to happen, is the following. I put things together. I love playing chess. So number one, we got OpenAI coming out with its robots at the end of the year. Number two, chat GPT four, they’re really pushing this multimodality.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:17:32]:
And Chat GPT five will be here by June of next year. In my opinion, with video fast forward, I’m saying to doctors, imagine putting chachi PT four and five in the eyes of the robot. Now, that robot can be a nurse assistant, can bring vitals, can read vitals with the vision of this camera, can tell what the hemoglobin, a one C is, what the blood pressure of the patient is, heart rate. And now imagine it becoming a virtual assistant where I walk in with the robot and I’m having a conversation and by the time I’m done, the robot’s either summarizing giving, looking up all your medical records, throwing your images up in the air to show you, I mean, it’s just going to change healthcare. And I don’t really think healthcare people are ready for this because they’re like, oh, that’s going to replace me. But I really think this is coming.
Jordan Wilson [00:18:21]:
That’s wild. It’s wild, but I see it because you point out an obvious fact, right? If there’s an ongoing nursing shortage, right, and if that is only projected to get worse and there’s going to be fewer nurses in ten years, now that you say it, hey, maybe you’re great at opening our eyes. Like, I have the meta ray bands on now, seeing the AI future, but it seems to make perfect sense, especially here. I’ll even share a little personal story on this. So many feel, you know, especially if I’m seeing a new specialist, a new physician, whatever. So many times I feel they just go to Google something or like they’re on their computers and they know refer to WebMD, right. I think a lot of people are going to hear that hot take there, Dr. Castro, and they’re going to be skeptical, and they’re going to be like, no, not a chance.
Jordan Wilson [00:19:25]:
But I don’t think it’s that far off, right? Like, if you can put an encyclopedic knowledge that is constantly updated, it seems that that actually it’s maybe not crazy. It’s maybe the responsible and ethical thing to do as a first line of defense for people that need more accessible and affordable health care. And if there’s not enough trained humans on the back end, wow, my brain is pretty shook this early. All right, let’s take in another direction. So, on the contrary, so I just put you on the hot seat there. I said, hey, what’s one thing that only you believe? Maybe let’s look at it in a different lens. What’s a common theme that’s going on right now in the medical field, in the healthcare community in regards to AI, and everyone’s kind of on this same train and everyone’s traveling down this same lane, and maybe something that you’re like, I’m not sure about that. I’m knees deep in this every day.
Jordan Wilson [00:20:34]:
I’m not sure if we’re heading in the right direction with our train of thought on this piece in medicine or healthcare and AI, maybe. What’s one of those things?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:20:42]:
Yeah, I’m going to pivot a little. I think the big picture is people are so scared and hesitant, and hospital systems are like, we got HIPAA, we got FDA, there’s all these things we can’t do. And I think in a good way, they’re focused on things that are outside the FDA. They’re trying to do things that will help with physician burnout and healthcare burnout. And that’s like epic creating these see, I’m an Er doc. Imagine you coming to see me and you’ve had like eight MRI reports, and you come to me with a big folder and saying, here doc, here’s all my stuff. And I’m having to go through all of it. How nice if I could even just feed it into some kind of GPT that’s HIPAA compliant, privacy secure.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:21:26]:
But then it looks at it, OCRs, all of it, and then gives me the summary of all of it. That way I’m not spending all this time trying to look at all the detail where it’s there that is becoming accepted. Now. The big controversy moving forward is, do I give OpenAI access? How do I secure this information? And I really think the future is going to be in creating kind of like Llama at your hospital. And that’s actually what I’m going to be doing next year, is working on Llama models, working with hospitals, and helping them create their own large language model. That way they don’t have to worry about privacy and these kind of things. I feel like it’s a dichotomy, but I really am excited to see that Llama and Meta and all these people are coming out with all these products because, big picture, it’s going to help us and it’s going to start adapting. The more people start using AI, the easier the administrators are going to say, okay, let’s use this tool.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:22:17]:
Now it’s being adopted.
Challenge of balancing AI and healthcare data security
Jordan Wilson [00:22:19]:
Yeah. And just for those that might not be, like me and Harvey and reading the Daily Large Language Model news, llama two is a model from Meta. And one of the big benefits is that you can run it locally, right? So you don’t have those same type of concerns about private patient information. HIPAA, they’re a little alleviated when you can run those models locally and you’re not necessarily uploading or sharing sensitive patient data, which is actually a great transition to woozy’s. So, woozy. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for the question. So he’s saying, what is the biggest challenge in getting AI into healthcare in terms of HIPAA? Because I’m also thinking here, Dr.
Jordan Wilson [00:23:07]:
Castro, because we have all of these trusted platforms, Epic, we have all these electronic medical record systems that we upload all of the information into without second thought. So I guess why or what are the hurdles still until we have that same mentality with updating it to an OpenAI or a Meta or a Google with their new model? So what’s the biggest challenge?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:23:38]:
The biggest challenge, and I know someone just commented, chatgpt Enterprise can address some of this and then I’m going to butcher this. It’s Azure server will also help. The problem with this is the information. Hip is so important that if your name, your address gets literally hacked, the fines can be over $100,000. And some of these things, depending how you do it, there’s actually jail time if you mess this up. And then on top of that, your insurance carrier won’t insure you if you make a HIPAA violation. So a lot of companies are very hesitant to do this, incorrect, obviously, but I think what they’re doing is they’re picking parts. There’s 18 Identifiers, meaning if you do one of these things, that’s HIPAA, and they’re looking at those Identifiers and saying, okay, where in the medical history, like discharge instructions, I could do that and not fall into HIPAA because it doesn’t have any of these 18 Identifiers.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:24:34]:
And so I think the future will be these kind of things. But again, I think it’s going to be scrubbing the data, having your own large language model at your own hospital system. That way the cloud is within your infrastructure and it never leaves. And I think that is the future. And I think that’s smart of Epic to start integrating inside of them because then now they’re trying to create it where it’s not really going into a cloud going back to OpenAI. They’re kind of bringing back they’re only using certain functions of chat GPT, if that makes sense. Hopefully that did.
Tech giants may acquire health companies for healthcare
Jordan Wilson [00:25:05]:
All right, I’m going to put you on the hot seat again here because my mind is opening up to different possibilities. So, like we say, everyone just automatically trusts and will upload anything into Epic because it’s been the leader, at least here in the US for, I don’t know, probably decades. But what’s to keep a company like OpenAI or like Google from maybe, I don’t know, acquiring an Epic or a company like them? Because right now it is the tech companies. And someone out there, if you’re listening, you’re like, oh, there’s no way Epic is a giant company. Well, in terms of valuation, I don’t know if anyone heard this, but OpenAI right now has a valuation of just under 100 billion, which is more than three times of the valuation of an Epic. So might we see, and maybe not an Epic, but maybe kind of a second or third place, kind of similar system? Might one of these big tech companies acquire one of these health companies, so then instantly they become the future of healthcare?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:26:12]:
That’s funny you say that.
Jordan Wilson [00:26:14]:
It’s a hot question.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:26:16]:
No, I love it. Again, I’m going to put my horrible analogy of chess. I feel like Microsoft is playing their chess game here really smart. They got the secure server. They’re getting in bed with Meta, they’re doing a good job with OpenAI. They’re acquiring different parts of healthcare. And you’re right. What’s to hold them back from acquiring someone else that takes that chess piece to another level? Acquiring epic would make sense.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:26:43]:
I don’t know what they’re worth, but I know Microsoft has more cash than they do, and I’m sure they can go 10 billion. Thank you. And so I’m sure that could be pulled off. And then the other thing, technology moves so fast that if Microsoft I know they really wouldn’t, but in a way, they could support another startup that could be the next Epic that would be better in using this technology. Technology can trump epic. Epic is not a nice software. I hate it personally. So I think it’s taken over easily.
Dr Harvey’s work with AI
Jordan Wilson [00:27:12]:
Yeah, there we go. And I think yeah, I just did a little search. It looks like the last valuation most recently was about 32 billion, but still okay, so let’s talk this. What are you working on? Let’s go there. Because I always love people who are very involved with everyday AI who come on a daily basis. They’re contributing. I’d love to give them a platform. So tell people, what are you working on? Because apparently you’re helping advise for a company related to NASA on AI and medical space.
Jordan Wilson [00:27:43]:
But what other projects are you just excited about right now? Or even other releases from other AI companies? What are you looking forward to working on in the next. Couple of months being someone that is so ingrained in AI in the health space.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:27:58]:
Yeah. There’s two things that are really kind of dear to my heart and it’s kind of weird, but I’ll explain. One is I literally clone my own voice and it’s called the GPT Podcast. And all I do is I find fun articles like AI and Healthcare. I feed it into chat GPT. It creates a fake conversation between my business partner and I. We both use our clone voices and then we look at the manuscript and if it looks good, then we push it out. And it sounds very natural.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:28:24]:
And I think it’s cool we’re actually going to come out with the SaaS model for anybody else to do the similar thing. But the part that excites me is being able to take any kind of information and just put it out there and help people. And it’s just really cool because I’m using Mid Journey for our pictures, I’m using Chatgpt, helping to put these little summaries together. This came out this week and it’s just really cool. My way of doing things, I’m so busy, but yet I can still have a voice. Maybe a clone voice, but I still have a voice. The other thing that is kind of cool is I love just figuring out how can I take AI and apply it to what I do? And so I made a decision maker plugin with chat GPT and it’s called decision maker. And all it is, is I wanted to help startups and companies with like, okay, I have a marketing problem, or hey, I have a decision to make with my child.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:29:12]:
Or as a doctor, hey, do I give this liver to this person that’s drinking every day versus this person that needs a liver that’s 18 years old, that kid and has a healthy issue. So there’s a lot of ethics involved. So I made this app where you ask the question and it walks you through the answer. And thanks for featuring me this week, Jordan. That was cool on your YouTube. I know that was this week, so I appreciate yeah, so those are the kind of things at the end of the day, that’s what makes me excited. It’s more about helping others, get them to another level, but just using the tools that are out there to do.
Jordan Wilson [00:29:42]:
Something, it love it. Yeah, so many so many fun and exciting projects that Dr. Castro is working on. And make sure to check out the newsletter today as well because we’ll be sharing a lot of those because yeah. Oh gosh, we didn’t even get into that. But Dr. Castro has put together some literally fantastic resources, especially if you are in the medical field on different even Chat GPT resources. He put together a great cheat sheet.
Jordan Wilson [00:30:07]:
So go to your Everyday.com sign up for the newsletter. We’re going to be putting all that out. Another question here from peter. Peter, thank you for joining us. So Peter’s asking do you think that an LLM can have an impact on other LLM in the healthcare response to the user? I think I fully understand the question there. I’ll leave it up to you to interpret the answer because we could go in a lot of different directions with that one.
Using LLMs in healthcare
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:30:32]:
Yeah, I’m kind of confused but I think it will open the door going back to the Meta example that LLM is going to help it because now I can ask questions in the future of just healthcare question and it’ll be right know or fun facts. And so that’s one way, that one LLM. And then I know that when OpenAI sees what Meta is doing they’re going to be no, no, we’re going to do the same thing and we’re going to put an API so that if you have glasses you can just start upgrading it and having those upgraded to do anything. So I’m excited about that. My biggest, biggest worry is I don’t want patients to do this and not realize there’s a hallucination effect. I’m always saying, hey, if you do this, please make sure you check with your doctor or check with the right specialist because very very worried that especially outside the United States where someone can self diagnose, walk to the pharmacy and get some drug because they think they have X disease, in reality they don’t.
Jordan Wilson [00:31:25]:
That’s a great transition here. Promise. I didn’t tee that one up. But Mike, thank you for the question. Mike is asking what are the cautions for non medical people seeking self diagnosis on Chat GPT? Fantastic question. Should people be doing it? What are the cautions? Because everyone’s using Google anyways, right?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:31:46]:
Yeah. And I’m old enough to say I remember the days of Dr. Google when it first 1st came out and people would show up with these papers and like look, Dr. Google told me all this and I remember my attendings and my boss hating know. Here’s the truth I’m going to caution you with. Check your references. The best reference is going to be your healthcare provider. For liability and legal reasons I would say don’t do it just because even if it’s a 1% chance of hallucination, that’s a lot given your health.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:32:15]:
It’s not like we’re picking a good stock or bad stock and worst comes to worst, we lose money. Here is your health and that’s worth gold. And so that’s why I’m very cautious. I’m easy talking to doctors because I’m like, look, here’s the tool, here’s the good, the bad. But ultimately you’re a doctor and you have medical training and you know what’s right or wrong. My worry with Chat GPT with patients is that it can help. But it’s so convincing that if you’re not medically trained it could say a half truth and half false. And then you’re like oh, this is good, I’m going to go with it.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:32:42]:
And ends up not and may hurt you. And so I’m more worried about that.
Jordan Wilson [00:32:46]:
Yeah, no, that’s a great concern. Okay, I could keep going on that one. But another great question and make sure to get your questions in. Now, I can’t keep Dr. Castro for 4 hours, but I think we can get at least one or two more questions. So get them in now. Great question here from Dr. Bill Koslowski.
Jordan Wilson [00:33:06]:
Hopefully I got that right. So he’s talking about Mark Cuban, his new Cost Plus drugs program, saying that it’s not about selling prescription drugs, but it’s actually about selling consumer trust that’s built through transparency. So Bill is asking, how can healthcare establish similar trust with oh, this one.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:33:28]:
I love this question. So here’s my answer back. I think the future is going to be we need to have a large language models with food labels. Why not have a little label for Chat GPT saying it was trained on the following data. These are the parameters. Here’s the biases in the large language model. Here’s why it’s good, bad, ugly. Here’s why you shouldn’t use it in India or Africa.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:33:48]:
And literally, it’s a nice little white paper, but very food label like. Very simple to the term. That way anyone can open this up and say, oh, okay, I see why this one’s good, this one’s bad. Why I shouldn’t do this and then do it in healthcare. And then the other part to add more trust is we need our own large language model, not chat GPT. I’m an Er doctor, so we need Er GPT or we need a healthcare GPT where it’s only trained on healthcare data, medical literature, patient information in the sense that it’s private information, but it’s factual information. Are doctors with their clinical gestalt. I have 20 years of Er experience, so someone like me working with Er LLM or Er Chat GPT equivalent and just reinforcing.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:34:31]:
And then now you would trust it because you’re like, okay, this has been vetted by 20,000 Er doctors.
Personalized health data
Jordan Wilson [00:34:38]:
One thing that I think has changed so much and even since our last conversation, right? Because we’ve done this once before and I’ll make sure to link in the newsletter to our previous conversation from a couple of months ago. But one thing that you brought up there, Dr. Castro, is kind of the personalized GPTs, right? Like er GPT. But it does seem like there is such a lean now, big companies are trying to bring personalized health data to the masses, right? The biggest one, I would say, is right, so Apple with some of their new products, they have pat to give consumers an actually insane amount of health data that goes straight to their phone from their watch other devices, right? What do you see being the future with personal data like this? And obviously OpenAI just announced yesterday they’re getting into hardware. We’re not sure what, but where do you see the future of healthcare data, specifically with technology.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:35:54]:
Oh, this is huge. Look up digital twins and basically ABAJ. And I took you and I created a digital twin. And then I can help you. Let’s say I had your genome. Obviously, there’s trust and all that. But say we get through all that, make sure it’s safe. I have you, a digital you.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:36:11]:
I have your genomic you. And then I can start creating drugs that are specific for you. So imagine a world where maybe I’m having to increase your blood pressure meds. Well, now I know your genetics. I know you. And I forgot to mention this. Now, with AI, we can lower the price of drugs by 90% to create that drug. So if this thing cost a billion, now, it’s 100 million was still a lot, but still, I can do it.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:36:33]:
And so imagine I’m starting to create drugs that are special for you, maybe certain diets that are special for you. And so being able to use this large amount of data like a genome, now I can put it all together and create a digital twin. And then I can even start practicing, saying, okay, this drug didn’t work. This drug. And then when you come to me, I’m like, okay, hey, digitally, this won’t work. Let’s try this on you. And now, boom, I’m giving you maybe one 10th of the dose on your normal medicine because it’s so specialized to you. Now, before I forget, I got to show this real quick.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:37:02]:
This is my last prop. This is AI coke generated. You need to check it out. Taste it. My wife hates it. My son loves it, and then my other son hates it. So let’s see if you can break the tie. So, anyway, I had to show this because coke made the formula using AI and used a label.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:37:18]:
I have no ownership in coke stock or anything like that. I just had to share it just because this is an so many.
Jordan Wilson [00:37:25]:
I think you’re also the only person to ever bring props, which should be a requirement from now on. This is so fun. It’s just like, what is Dr. Castro going to pull from behind the desk that is AI related. So fun. Another question. Here a great one from Tom. Thank you for the question, Tom.
Jordan Wilson [00:37:43]:
So he’s saying, I’m told we will hit a legal barrier in our attempt to help users explore their health data with GPT. It’s a huge missed opportunity since it’s although imperfect, it is quite accurate. So do we need to wait for GPT five or six before we can offer it to our users?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:38:00]:
No, I don’t think so. I think, like, that example of the discharge instructions, we could do that. There’s other stuff that I’m helping companies with that we should be able to do. The answer is, and I know this is going to sound weird, but I think the future will hold. Some people doing waivers, saying, you know what, pros versus con. I’m going to sign this off. I’m fine with the risk and I want this done. The last little weird ethical thing that I say is I predict that we’re going to start seeing crazy, cool health care applications in Africa before we see them in the US.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:38:33]:
Because of this politics and legal and lobbyist groups and all this, no, we’re not going to do this. And then other countries that are risk versus benefits that are a little different, they’re going to say, oh no, we got parts of our country that have no health care. We’re going to use Elon Musk satellite, we’re going to bring some computers, get some Pas, and we’re going to give health care to the masses because that’s the only way we can. And people are going to be like, no, that’s not going to happen. I predict that will.
How AI can help in limited resource spaces
Jordan Wilson [00:39:00]:
It seems, it seems like an obvious fit, right? Like for other areas in the world that don’t have access to medicine. And here we have access to medicine, we have access to technology. So that does seem like a pretty natural fit. There another question here from Babar. Thank you for joining us. Saying, Dr. Castro, how do you see AI playing a role in resource limited settings? So kind of like what we were just talking about. But here’s a great one, places where even the use of electronic record systems are not in place.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:39:35]:
That’s a good question. I love old school. I think it’s a balance of that human plus AI putting together. But I don’t think we’re far from that day you mentioned it, apple already has a 34 million parameter large language model in their phone. I predict that the memory will go up and the size of these large models are going to start training them to be smaller. And so I really think it’s just going to become an efficiency thing. And here’s the thing. For healthcare, you don’t need chat, GPT, whatever, 2 trillion parameters you might be able to get away with Llama.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:40:10]:
And Llama has three models. Their smallest model might work for a lot of the things that you’re already doing. Create like a mini electronic medical record that’s already on your phone. So this thing is really going to change things.
Jordan Wilson [00:40:22]:
Yeah, that’s something that, unless you’re following AI very closely, I don’t know if people really understand the implications of having a large language model on your device. Right? So that means you don’t need to upload any data to the Internet. You don’t need to even send information to an OpenAI, a Google, a Microsoft, right? It’s all happening. It’s all processing on your phone. And Microsoft just announced this with their new Surface hardware being able to run a large language model locally. So, yeah, how might that obviously we don’t know. Well, maybe you do, but it’s brand new. Running a large language model locally on a device is very new.
Jordan Wilson [00:41:11]:
Is that going to be used in the healthcare setting? Is that kind of a temporary, quote unquote solution for some of these issues regarding patient privacy and giving data to companies? Is that going to be a thing?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:41:25]:
Yeah, I want to explore that for a second. I’m going to give this idea away. This was something I was going to do myself, but now I’m like, you know what? If someone’s listening, they want to do it, go for it. I think the future is this with this, what you just said, a clear example. Imagine you walk in and you find someone down, and they’re passed out unconscious. Their heart just stopped right in front of you. They just went down. And you’re not a doctor.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:41:49]:
What do you do? You just call 911? Well, guess what? It may take five to 15 minutes to get there. And if they don’t get any oxygen, those first five minutes, they’re dead. What if your phone had already the large language model of CPR and everything on there? And now with augmented reality, you’re showing the patient, and it’s telling you, hey, CPR is like this. And then someone can be beholding the phone, or you can be doing it, and it’s kind of walking you through. And now you’re giving CPR. Now you’re giving that first CPR. And if the latest technology changes now, the phone already has it in, built in it. And then for that person that said, hey, what if you don’t have Internet? That’s the point.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:42:26]:
If it’s on here now, it doesn’t matter. You can be in the middle of the Grand Canyon with no service, and this thing will tell you what to do.
Jordan Wilson [00:42:36]:
Wow. Yeah, that’s a deep one, too, right? It changes where you can even practice medicine. Something I’m curious about, because maybe I’m in the minority here, but I don’t care what my healthcare provider does with my data, if I’m being honest. And yeah, maybe I’m in the minority, but I would, in theory, waive my right and say yes, upload my medical charts, upload this, upload that. I would do that for better, more accessible, more affordable care. Because at least here in the US, sometimes to see a specialist, you’re talking 2345 months, right? Do you ever see that being an option? Or might there be a large company, know, shakes up the healthcare system and they’re like, hey, come in here. You opt in. Yeah, we give all of your data to these large language models or whatever.
Jordan Wilson [00:43:35]:
But on the flip side, you’re going to get way faster, way more accessible care. Is that an option, or is that way too far fetched?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:43:45]:
I think the sad thing is the risk versus benefits. We’re getting there where it costs so much money. I pay so much money a month to just have health care, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. And so, again, the risk versus benefits, I would actually pay less and be able to get something like that. I’d be happy to sign my part away. And to give you a real example, people are traveling to other parts of the world to get health care. It’s not uncommon to someone to say, oh, they went to X country to get this procedure or that country to get that dental procedure, because it’s just cheaper. And so we need to do something because we shouldn’t have our citizens have to leave our country to go get healthcare.
Jordan Wilson [00:44:23]:
Yeah, absolutely. And again, I know we have people tuning in from all over the world, and thank you for sticking with us. I know this is a much longer conversation, so this is going to be my last question, I promise. And then I’ll give Dr. Castro the option here. But will that in the future happen? And especially when we look at accessibility in different countries and yeah, people from the US. Specifically have to travel to other countries sometimes just to be able to be seen sooner. And health care here is extremely expensive.
Jordan Wilson [00:45:03]:
So do you think is that a viable option where whether it happens somewhere here in the US. Or elsewhere? Because at least here in the US. It seems like there’s an opportunity for something like that because we have very expensive, very slow moving healthcare system. Yet we are the only country that essentially has no guardrails when it comes to AI. All other countries, especially in Europe and other places, they have very tight guardrails on AI. So it seems like that should happen at some point.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:45:38]:
I think so. I think so. And hopefully someone out there is going to be calling us. It’s like, hey, I got an idea. Let’s do X, because I’m going to help out. Whatever it is. At the end of the day, my goal is the patient. We can help the patient.
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:45:49]:
And all of us, including myself, we’re all patients. Let’s do this as a community. One thing that everybody could do is honestly share this show, because the more people hear it, see it, they’re like, oh, that’s a good idea. We should do x y. And it’s not about us. It’s about others. So let’s help others out there.
Jordan Wilson [00:46:04]:
Love that. All right. I took up way too much of your time, Dr. Castro. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in, for listening. But I want to give you the stage. What is your one piece of advice, your biggest takeaway, whether it’s for someone in the medical community or someone who is maybe just a patient and who is eager to learn about the future of AI in healthcare, what is your one piece of advice that you can give to both or either group?
Dr. Harvey Castro [00:46:34]:
Yeah, at the end of the day, I feel like everything’s about education become a life, learner, take this and say, you know what? I’m just going to learn about AI. It’s going to help me or help my family and just make it a hobby or make it a focus or make it an interest. And if it’s AI and healthcare, great. But if it’s AI and every other day AI, whatever it is, just do it. The main thing is I’m a doctor, obviously, so my main thing is let’s help others. So whatever knowledge you get, just make sure you give it back to others.
Jordan Wilson [00:47:02]:
The knowledge piece is important, right? Because there’s bad information, there’s a lot of incomplete information. So, yeah, it’s important to study and to learn and to keep up. And I thank you for that, Dr. Castor, because you helped us. I think you just gave everyone listening, whether they are working in healthcare or they’re just interested as a patient, I think you just give everyone a large chunk of knowledge that they can take forward and improve their daily lives. So, again, thank you, Dr. Harvey Castro, for joining the show. I very much appreciate it.
Jordan Wilson [00:47:35]:
All right, cool. And as a reminder, that was a lot. There’s so many resources that I talked about, we’re going to plug them in the newsletter. So make sure to go to your Everyday.com, sign up for that newsletter. We’re going to have it out in a couple of hours. Also, if you’re on the podcast, make sure to check the show notes. We’re going to leave a link. You can come join the conversation on LinkedIn.
Jordan Wilson [00:47:55]:
Leave a question for Dr. Castro. He’s always answering questions. He’s always networking. He’s always bringing people in and sharing knowledge. So make sure you do that. So thank you again for tuning in and hope to see you back for another edition of Everyday AI. Thanks, y’all.